Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:29 PM
Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:31 PM
But I see nothing wrong with clipping. If there are other animals in the house it is in their best interest to be free flighted, but if its not the most bird friendly house then clip them. Its good for bonding at the beginning, once they grow out then reassess the situation.
2 scaley lorikeets-Hector and kez
1 eclectus hen-Alexis
1 electus male-Booger
11 Rainbow Lorrikeets, 17 Cockatiels 4 Barraband Parrots 15 Canaries 4 Eastern Rosellas, 6 Red Rump Parrots 4 red cheek finches 8 gouldian finches 3 burkes parrots 2 turk 2 long tails 4 firetail finches 7 zebra finches 2 diamond doves 4 Euro Gold Finches 2 budgies 2 princess 2 scarlet chested
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:35 AM
None of my babies are clipped. However, when I first got our first cockatiel (Pikachu) I did clip her wings one time. I think that both methods have good and bad points about them...
I personally do not clip anyone's wings because they enjoy flying, and I believe that it is good exercise. I have also worked with all of them - and they have free-flight in the house. But first, all fans are turned off, and I make sure that things are out of their way.
However, there are some positives about clipping wings... When there are open doors or windows birds can escape. They can drown in sinks and toilets - and clipping their wings can help to decrease these risks...
I really don't clip mine because I love watching them fly around - and they are safe. They seem to have a blast - and I don't want to do anything that would inhibit that fun. When we got LeMonjello - his wings were clipped - and he honestly acted a little down when the others would be flying around. But now he has molted and can fly - and he is a happy little boy...which also makes me happy!!
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:23 PM
Tiels Clyde, Petey & Darcy
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:37 PM
Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with. I do have one, Ginger our M2, that will most likely be getting clipped as the attitude is through the roof right now, plus she won't wear a harness for beans! Ginger is a boy (misnamed) and is now 12 and a brat LOL! She loves to "visit" Lowes and other places, but will eat through a harness too quickly to without having her wings clipped.
There will always be debates with good arguements for both sides of the clipping issue, I still feel that each person needs to do what they are comfortable with. Some want and can live with full flighted birds, others can't. I don't think there is a truely wrong or right answer for this.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:37 PM
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:57 PM
It's great exercise, they enjoy it, and they can freely fly from their cage, to their play stand to you, and its good for them mentally. To me it’s the same as walking for us, you can take away my ability to walk and I can still exercise, and be carried around, but it’s not the same as walking. So I still feel you are taking something away from the bird and that’s why I choose not to clip, but I am also willing to go the extra mile to keep my bird safe.
IF you don’t clip your birds wings use some common sense, don’t take your bird outside without a crate or harness, when you are cooking put your bird back in the cage, shut the bathroom doors when the bird is out, turn off your ceiling fans when the bird is out, make sure your bird knows the layout of the house and where all the windows and mirrors are, and train a reliable come in case of emergencies, when you don’t have time to properly supervise your bird put it back in its cage, bird proof your home to keep your bird out of anything you don’t want it into.
Don’t let people in and out of the house while the bird is out, have a closed door/window policy.
If you can’t do the above and put your flighted birds safety above what you are doing at the time, then yes clip them, there is no reason for your bird to get out and possibly die for your negligence.
So in conclusion, is unclipped good for the birds yes, does it take more work on your part yes, if you are not willing to put the time and effort in keeping your bird safe them PLEASE clip your bird.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 04:35 PM
I think setting the choice as "bad" vs. "good" really oversimplifies the question. It's not a question of good or bad, but one of "is it appropriate?" It is neither inherently good or bad; and without knowing the circumstances, it's impossible to say whether it's appropriate. There are a lot of nuances to the question, and in order to make the best decision, you should keep a very open mind when doing your research.
Mika, White Capped Pionus | Stewie, Sun Conure
Best in Flock parrot blog
- Parrot Dominance - A False Construct
- How Loud is a Screaming Sun Conure?
- Clicker Training Misconceptions
- Parrots Never Bite for "No Reason"
- Clicker Training for Birds - Book Review
Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:54 PM
However - I will caution you that a clipped bird can still fly, so harnesses are a *must* when a bird is outside. Here's my story:
I grew up with a beautiful B&G Macaw named Rocky. He was already a mature bird when my parents got him, but he was a total lover. They used to bring him outside all the time and let him hang out in the trees in the front yard, supervised.
I was home on break from college and before I left to drive back to school, I told my mom "Make sure you clip Rocky before you bring him outside again, I noticed he has some flight feathers coming back in." Do you think they clipped him? Nope. I got a panicked call in my dorm room a few days later from my mom, who told me that she had Rocky outside, and a car went by and startled him. He instinctively took off, and she watched him soar over the trees.
They did get him back - more than a week later and almost 15 miles from home. He was banded so they could identify him...and thank goodness the people whose yard he finally landed in, exhausted, checked the paper for lost bird ads and called my parents.
He was physically OK, but lost quite a bit of confidence from the ordeal, and wasn't too keen on coming out of his cage for quite some time after he came back home.
So...yes, I advocate clipping, but it is definitely not the "be all and end all" of bird safety.
NOT PICTURED: Starrie, Maximillian Pionus
Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:13 PM
Posted 12 July 2008 - 07:04 AM
Below is part of a long letter I wrote in Birdboard in this thread
Partial extract of that letter.
Clipping or not clipping of wings
This thread came about from a recent topic 'The Importance of Flight-Feather Clipping; plus Clipping Techniques ' here. In that thread, we are told that arguments as to reasons why that is done will not be appropriate. Other threads are then named but when I went into there, the thread was 'locked' .
I am very neutral on this issue. People should do what they think best in their situation. But I want to point out that it is a dangerous fallacy to think that clipping will therefore lead to birds from having unplanned flyaways.
Of course, nothing but nothing is foolproof. My recent misadventures with
Tinkerbell underline the dangers of complacency and even a split second misdirection of attention can cause nightmares and premature ageing.
Below are a series of old emails and stuff from my blog.
Much more in
If your do know of above thread and have made up your mind, then best wishes go with you regardless of what you have decided as you and only you can make that final decision.
But if you have not known and have not read that thread, you might like to read that for the information that will give you more basis for whatever that you want to decide on.
Posted 14 July 2008 - 01:35 AM
Posted 14 July 2008 - 03:58 AM
In the winter I left them fly around. They have the space and it is good and healthy since we are all strap in because of the weather. I do not have my aviary build outside yet. So I bring them outside with their cages. Since my little incident a month ago. I am rethinking the wings clipping will happen in the summer harness/no harness. I love my bird to much to lose them over I shoud have to.
Posted 25 July 2008 - 07:42 AM
Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:33 PM
The next thing I really want to address is that it doesn't matter whether or not you clip ever feather on your bird's wings or not, if you take that bird outside, that bird can and probably will at some point fly away. So, please do not think that just because your bird is clipped and you have never seen it fly that it is safe for that bird to go outside without a harness. You are being very foolish and you will most likely become a statistic, the very statistic that you are stating those of us who leave our birds fully flighted are ending up as.
I'm a complete advocate of leaving birds fully flighted for a lot of reasons and this is because almost all the reasons for clipping do not work. All those reasons that people advocate for clipping can be worked out. Cooking, ceiling fans, toilets, etc, you can change your life around so that you don't even have to worry about. Everyone says that birds are "safer" clipped, but the bottom line is, the number of birds who are lost every year are not fully flighted birds but birds who were clipped that their owners *thought* were safe. Clipping leads to a HUGE sense of false security and the problems that people list as unsafe for a fully flighted bird are the exact same problems that a clipped bird can get into. For too long, we have been lead to believe that clipping is the only way to keep our birds safe and it is not true if you break it all down bit by bit.
As far as Tui is concerned, you can't even use this as and advocation for clipping. This was a complete and total tragedy based on false free flight training accusations based on horrible people out there pedaling crap. This has absolutely nothing to do with leaving your birds fully flighted.
Lastly, everything about a bird was designed for flight. Their respiratory system works 10 to 12 times more efficiently if they can fly daily. Their life expectancy is longer. They are happier and healthier and doing what they were supposed to do. I just can't see taking that away from the with the exception of a bird who would spend more time in it's cage if fully flighted rather than clipped or with a lot of in and out of the house activity where the bird just cannot be safely kept inside. Everything else can be taken care of by changing the human behavior!
Here are some great articles that talk more about these isssues:
http://www.geocities...h/clipping.htm: Gay Noeth - What Do We Do With Those Wings?
http://www.parrotpas... revisited.htm: Mattie Sue Athan - Wings Revisited
http://www.parrothou...andflight.html: Pamela Clark - Feathers, Flight, and Parrot Keeping
http://www.theparrot...com/flight.php: Steve Hartman - Flighted Parrots
http://www.ckcbirds....andfiction.htm: Wing Clipping Fact and Fiction
www.silvio-co.com/cps/articles/1994/1994precious1.htm: Carole Precious - The Need for Exercise in Parrots
http://home1.gte.net...irdflight.html: Bill Arbon - Is There More to Bird Flight than Meets the Eye?
Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:54 PM
I totally agree with you. Even when I lost Kia A.G. Timneh by accident thank god she came back. I never did clip her wings, I was still debating the same after her returned and I decided not to do it. She is a happy bird, fly well around the house in her free moment with supervision and she is good at it. My Congo on the other hand was clip from young age and even today fully flighted he does not like flying and he is not good at it. I still believe it is their only self defence to fly away.
Thanks for your comment and the good article that you include.
Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:38 PM
Charlie, my Festive Amazon, is not clipped and I have never seen him fly. Neither have his previous owners. One time he fluttered to the floor from the tabletop but that was more like a clunky, barely controlled fall than anything else. Charlie seems to prefer to stomp around finding things to chew up. He is the master of shredding houseplants. We have learned to watch him closely if he's out of his cage, as seed guards don't deter him from coming down and walking around!
So, for now, Rocky gets tons of exercise by flying and we are super-alert and extra-careful. He is *never* out of his cage while we are cooking. He is *never* out of his cage if we are going in and out the door.
I think that having fully flighted birds requires a far greater, different commitment to safety issues than having a clipped bird. You just have to be more aware of the various risks, and be willing to be extra careful. You can't take anything for granted, that's for sure.
I have no problem with people clipping their birds, but I think that more birds should be allowed to fly if possible. To me, flying is a basic need for mental and physical health. If you take away flying, you need to be prepared to fill the void with other outlets for mental and physical stimulation.
Charlie, Festive Amazon h. 1963
Ollie, American Crow h. 04/02
Rocky, Hahn's Macaw h. 12/07
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users