Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:01 PM
All the reasons that Cathie brought up can be looked at in a different way and I just wish people would do that more often. In most cases, the birds being lost every year are not the fully flighted ones who are living with those of us who came to the decision in an educated way. They are the clipped ones who are being taken outside by owners who think their bird has no idea how to fly or think that just because the bird is clipped, it can't fly. Or, my personal favorite, they don't keep up with the clip and the bird is technically fully flighted and the owner has no real clue how to keep the bird truly safe.
If you're going to clip, then make sure you're diligent about it. If you want to live with a fully flighted bird, do the research and educate yourself.
As to the brain damage...that's a tragic story, but it's all due to poor fledging, another thing that we don't talk about nearly enough. Breeders do it all the time but those of us with adult birds who are re-learning flight need a little help. It's very easy to teach a bird to fly but if not done correctly, it can have dire, even mortal consequences.
Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:14 AM
I personally think that it is a myth that clipped birds are safer than flighted birds or that flighted birds take more care and diligence. Both methods have pros and cons and require diligence for different reasons. The decision to clip or keep a bird fully flighted is a personal one and must be carefully thought out and one must be aware of the pros and cons.
One of the most common reasons given for clipping is to prevent the bird flying away. I shudder when I read posts on this thread where people say things like I clip so I can take my bird outside. If you take anything from my post please let it be this. Clipped birds can fly away never to be seen again. Not only that but once they fly off they are more vulnerable than flighted birds. 50% of parrots that fly away are clipped. In some cases clipping makes recovery easier and in other cases it makes it harder. I had a clipped cockatiel who could only flutter about a meter but one day she flew off out of sight. I found her a few meters from a pond. I now often think what if she had landed in the pond, the neighbours paddocks, or in a tall tree. Believe me it is just as bad to see a clipped bird fly out of sight as it is to see a fully flighted bird head over the horizon.
Another reason is accidents. Once a clipped bird starts to fly it has very little control over where it goes. I have read of at least one case of a clipped bird landing in a pot of boiling soup (or water). At least a flighted bird can dodge a pot if it realises the danger. Clipped birds can also end up in open fishtanks or swimming pools. A flighted bird is more likely able to fly out of water if there is enough room for it to spread its wings. I know this because on one of Havock’s first trips to the local river he tried to make like a duck. Clipped birds can also hit windows and smash into things. In some cases the bird will fall short of the place where it wanted to land and hit the object hard instead. Clipped birds are also prone to walking on the floor and might get stepped on. I lost count of the number of times that I nearly stepped on my cockatiel so you need to be just as diligent with a clipped bird.
A proper clip allows a bird to glide but the problem is that glide could take it right into trouble. The only way to stop a bird from flying into trouble is to clip it so it falls like a brick. The problem with this is obvious.
It is strange that fully flighted parrots flying away or getting killed and injured in accidents are pushed as reasons to clip and yet the fact that clipped birds fly away or get killed and injured is not seen as reasons keep a bird flighted. Both can result in a bird flying away never to be seen again and both can be the cause of accidents. Is clipping a good idea or bad idea? It depends on each individual situation. Chris Biro used to keep birds clipped if they were not suitable for flight training. In some cases clipping is best but owners of clipped birds must also be vigilant and take precautions to keep their birds safe and protect them from the dangers they face this would include keeping doors and windows shut, keeping the bird out of the kitchen, covering fishtanks, and watching where they walk etc. Despite all the precautions both clipped and flighted birds can be killed or injured.
Another myth that has nothing it do with safety is that clipping enhances your relationship with the bird. (I am not talking about clipping the wings of a bird to establish a bond. I am also not talking about those who need to clip the wings of an especially aggressive bird to help give it an attitude adjustment. What I am talking about is people clipping to maintain a bond with the bird.) I have read some sources that claim that you should keep your bird clipped because if a tame bird is able to fly they lose their bond with you and start to fly away from you. The theory is that if the bird is clipped it will be more loving and have a better relationship with you. In that case I have to ask is the relationship one sided or two? If the person must resort to keeping the bird’s wings clipped in order get the parrot to stay with them then to me they don’t have a true bond with the bird. A bird that truly has a bond will be just as tame flighted or clipped. A truly bonded bird will want to be with you and will fly to you of its own free will. You might even consider clipping just so you can escape the bird. To say clipping maintains and enhances a bond is like a parent hobbling a child that they have a bad relationship with and saying it has enhanced their relationship with their child as the child is more cuddly and does no run away from them anymore but that when they take the hobbles off the child loses their bond with the parent and no longer wants to be with them.
Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:23 AM
I believe that clipping is done for the (often ignorant) human's convinience. And that it's abuse, really. (Now I may get hated on - be gentle! )
Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:53 PM
However, if your setting and condition doesn't allow you to let the bird flighted, then it's better to clip.
Clip birds are often:
Lost, owner think the bird can not fly, but when there's win, there the bird go
Lack of confidence.
Couldn't escape danger.
Tend to be obese
Flighted birds are often:
Need extra caution
Like why have been mentioned, flighted bird can ge exposed to many dangers at home
As a responsible bird owner, we need to teach the bird some basic things at home like pop on proper place, what is window and mirror, and keep them sefe while cooking. You also need to teach the bird atleast some basic recall training.
This is important even if your bird is clipped. U never know when accident happen and when your bird stuck in a tree.
For me, personally, I will keep them flighted as currently, my condition and setting permit me to do so and I am fortunate enough to get him free fly outdoor, in the same time teach him the basic manners and rule at home.
The good news is, it's not permanent.
You can try to keep him flighted and if you can't cope, then you can get him a proper clipping.
If you want him to be flighted again, the wing will regrow after a few moult.
So it's something that got turning back:)
Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:02 PM
i have green wing macaw, blue crown conure, and yellow sided conure. For my case, i let all my bird fly unrestrained outside. you can check on this video, i think i post it here before, but somehow i cant find it again. so i will just post the link here again
i have been flying them since mid of last year.
the blue crown conure i got him around april, he was a wild bird and he start flying outside around july.
then i got my macaw around july, also quiet wild, and he start flying outside around mid august.
the yellow sided conure i hand feed since he have not open the eyes. start flying outside at around 3 months old, without any serious training.
the training method is a little long to type here and its not consistent from bird to bird.
but basically, it start with homeground basic, weight monitoring(what is the bird weight range when he respond and perform the best), whistle as emergency recall, descend and ascend training, and bonding.
the detail method is adjusted here and there to suit the bird.
however, may be its not vary appropriate to the tread starter if we discus it here.
i apologize to the thread starter for going off topic
Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:33 PM
Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:02 PM
Now she can fly. In my house we have cats. I always lock them up but just in case they were to get out, I want her to be able to get away from them. So far, she will fly from her cage to where ever I am. That's it. She won't fly to anyone else, or anywhere else.
I do not let her out while I am cooking anything at all. No one is allowed in or out of the house while she is out. If I am the only one home and the dogs need out, she goes back into her cage.
As for going outside, she will when the weather warms up. In a smaller cage. We have a wooded area behind and beside us, and the dangers around here for her are just too many. We also have a busy highway in the front . I will not take that chance.
I am not for or against clipping. My opinion, you have to do what ever is right for you and your bird :-)
The rest of the Family.....
1 Husband, 4 kids, 2 Labs, 4 cats, 1 fishy, 2 lovebirds and 1 pineapple conure :-)
Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:12 AM
:animal18: Dixie - chocolate labrador retriever born 11/2001
:animal18: Gunner - black labrador retriever born 09/2004
Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:50 PM
Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:13 AM
I hear stories all the time of my bird got out, my bird landing in my cooking pot, my bird ran into a window or mirror. Here are my answers to those people...recall train your bird so if it does get out it will come back/watch what your doing at the door!, don't have your bird out and around the house while your cooking (You don't let your human baby around hot pots and pans do you? then why let your bird and remember...it can fly!). As for the windows and mirror's some birds don't go for them and if they do when your bird is out cover them up so it's not tempting any more.
I raise doves for a living and own and scarlet macaw and none of my birds have had their wings clipped and I have lost none to any of these "accidents" it's really just using common sense in keeping your birds safe while they are out and flying.
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